OK, I'm going to throw this in for the debate-Elimination Communication. I think I'm going to try this with my next baby, due in Feb. Basically it's what we've all heard that parents in other parts of the world do who don't use diapers, they just learn their babies cues and hold them over a receptacle or the ground when the babies need to go. I think this may work for me because I am already planning on being attached to the baby (now that my first showed me how), so in addition to learning when they need to eat and sleep, I'll learn when he/she needs to eliminate. I do not intend to have a baby peeing and pooing all over the house, and I will probably still use diapers as well.

The joke of it all is that Amelia, almost 2, hasn't really shown an interest in potty-training yet and we're not pushing her, so my second baby may be "potty-trained" before my first...

Posted by: Carabeth | Dec 12, 2005 5:27:45 PM

First - we introduced the little potty right when she started crawling. It was used as a toy chest and a step stool for a bit, but very soon, she started to imitate me. Every so often, I would sit her on the potty naked and she would pee! Her reward at the time was a sticker book and she loved it. We did end up moving up to m&ms. At two years old, she was standing in the bathroom naked waiting to join me in the shower and she started to pee on herself. I jumped out of the shower and put her on the big potty and wala! No more diapers after that.

Second, in response to Carabeth - I watched a program on Elimination Communication the other night and I know that I would have no patience for that. I would have to hover over my daughter the entire day, like I have NOTHING else to do and literally hold the baby on the seat until something happens. I mean, if you miss a signal because you were cooking dinner, you are screwed. I just can't fathom the idea of scrubbing carpets vs. changing a diaper. I am in no hurry to get my children potty trained. It would be nice to have them potty trained by three, like MIC said, but I really am a fan of diapers until the time comes.

Posted by: Goldberry | Dec 12, 2005 7:33:37 PM

Goldberry:

Yeah, I'm not sure if it'll work, especially with having a toddler around. We'll see! I probably could have done it with my first because she demanded so much of my time in the first few months anyway, whether I was cooking, taking a shower, whatever, she was with me. So we'll see, I must admit, I do tend toward the easier road and I'm not militant about this issue at all. Ask me in March!!

I brought it up because I thought it was interesting and had never thought it was feasible in Western society, I don't know why I thought that. I'm sure no-one anywhere likes cleaning up baby messes!

Posted by: Carabeth | Dec 12, 2005 8:53:12 PM

I've read about "elimination communication" and I would most certainly not have the patience for this. Maybe if it was a first baby, a parent might have that much attention to focus on the baby. But with a toddler around?? I don't know how one would manage. I certainly understand this theory's appeal, though ;-)

Posted by: Mother in Chief | Dec 12, 2005 9:22:27 PM

If we had waited until my first was "ready" he would have been five. We had to push it. Yes, he cried. But? He was trained within 48 hours at 3 years, 3 months. And he didn't cry that much.

I think 3 1/2 would be my absolute limit. They may have accidents beyond that but that can be worked through.

Posted by: Kris | Dec 12, 2005 11:35:45 PM

"and I'm determined to not be one of those parents with a diaper-wearing three-year-old"

Um, excuse me, but what exactly is the problem with a diaper-wearing three year old? I guess I was one of *those* parents, as Tristan finally gave up his diapers at three and a half. And yet, we survived the social stigma. Oh wait, there was no social stigma. So what if your kid is still in diapers at three - or four? I'd rather have him in diapers than turn every bowel movement into a power struggle.

We waited until he was ready, and he was trained virtually overnight. We had maybe three accidents, none of them poops, and it was done. No mess, no fuss, no tears.

Setting an arbitrary age limit rather than respecting your child's wishes and abilities seems rather silly to me. And I won't even get started on the whole EC thing...

Posted by: Danigirl | Dec 13, 2005 9:25:27 AM

I don't want want to be a parent of a diaper-wearing three year old because I'm sick of diapers... period. And maybe TIC was just ready as well (maybe not...he's still in training, but making tons of progress). We don't have crying fits or power struggles. It all comes down to him wanting a reward. However, I guess this could all backfire if he decides he doesn't want any more M&Ms.

Posted by: Mother in Chief | Dec 13, 2005 1:22:56 PM

I made the mistake of signing Ben up for a preschool that required potty training. I figured, he turned three in May, I had all summer to train him. But, he resisted all efforts, and accepted nothing but a diaper. So, we did a full immersion course during a vacation at a local lake. He resisted even sitting and trying, he cried, but he was trained within a few days and never had accidents. My other son, peed on the potty as early as 15 months, yet he'll be four in a few weeks and still has accidents. Who knows? I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with giving a little push and making them go out of their comfort zones to achieve the goal.

Posted by: Kris | Dec 13, 2005 11:13:51 PM

From my perspective, resolving not to be the parent of a diapered 3yo is a bit like resolving not to be the parent of a lisping 4yo or a still-crawling 14mo. Normal is a range, and sometimes you have to work with what you're given. It is developmentally appropriate for some children, particularly boys, to be in diapers at 3.

I have four boys, which means I have changed some five-digit number of diapers. Personally, I would rather keep laundering cloth diapers than deal with accidents during outings and the other frustrations that accompany nudging a child along when he's not quite ready to be done with diapers.

What's in it for the kids? you ask. After the light bulb goes on, there's a lot in it for them. The feeling of mastery that goes along with learning a new skill. The recognition that they're in charge of their bodies. The excitement that comes from being more like Dad or a big brother. They know they've reached a milestone. That's more rewarding than M&Ms any day.

Posted by: Jamie | Dec 14, 2005 12:16:14 AM

sigh. if only it were that easy. I am going through trying to FULLY potty train a 3 yr old boy right now. I like what you said about not waiting around till he's "ready". This post and comments are so encouraging. Thanks.

Posted by: Cityslicker mom | Dec 14, 2005 12:43:04 AM

Oh I so agree. If a kiddo can do it for a bribe, then they're ready. My son was so stubborn but once I found the "right" bribe he was all over that potty and gone were the diapers! I decided after two weeks of successful potty training to bite the bullet and let him go all night. He had one accident the first night and about every three weeks he has one in the middle of the night, but he'll learn. I'm sure. Good luck! LOL!

Posted by: Kdubs | Dec 14, 2005 7:09:23 AM

I very recently got my 2 1/2-year-old daughter fully potty trained and definitely agree that you have to find the right bribe. Sure, they have to be ready, but I knew she was ready because she could tell me when she had just gone in her diaper. All the books say, if they can communicate about it to you, they're ready.

I got her a couple books about kids using the potty so she'd have some examples of peers doing it. Then figured I'd use chocolate as the reward since the girl loves the stuff in every form. The M&Ms worked for a while, but they weren't good enough to get her to poop. She's too stubborn for that. I let it go and kept her in pull-ups. She'd pee pretty frequently on the potty (unless she was feeling particularly stubborn or moody) but absolutely refused to poop on the potty.

Then we moved to a new state and I figured I better not push it too hard -- too many other adjustments to make. But after a couple of weeks into our new life I found out that pretty much all the preschools required potty training. I panicked. I needed her in preschool fast so I could work from home and preserve my sanity. First I tried upping the ante -- offering her dolls, toys, cakes, cookies, anything! But nothing was good enough to get her to poop.

Then I took her to a school for a visit. She got to play with kids and paint. She was SO excited. She loved the school and couldn't stop talking about it. Then I realized my super-social-butterfly might poop for school! I told her she couldn't go to school until she went pee AND poop in the potty all the time. Then -- now here's the key -- I took away the pull-ups. Cold turkey. Soon after she went poop on the potty and happily shouted "I'm ready for school!" She was fully potty trained in a matter of days and the only accidents she has are occasional little pee squirts (sorry if that's too graphic) when we don't get to a potty fast enough.

Moral of this story: Try taking away the pull-ups (even at night) and think outside the candy when coming up with a bribe.

P.S. I have to admit that she didn't actually like having to go poop on the potty. After 2 1/2 years of standing up, preferably behind the potted ficus, she didn't want to go to a different room and sit down. At first I'd sit in there with her and bring a book, but it became playtime. So one day I just put her in there and in a very no-nonsense way said, "I'll be in the other room, let me know when you're done -- and hurry up so we wont be late for gymnastics." It took maybe a minute -- a record! And I knew then that she could do her business just fine and she was working me by making a big deal out of it.

Since then I always make her poop on her own so she doesn't have an audience for her potential dramatics. And now she'll even stop playing to run in there, pull down her pants and poop without telliing me. I only know about it because she'll shout for me to come wipe her. Now, if she could only do that herself....

Posted by: Danielle | Dec 15, 2005 2:18:37 AM

Danielle -- That's so interesting about the audience... I think TIC has really enjoyed me being in there and gets upset when I don't want to sit on the step-stool. But I also think that his shenanigans about getting me to sit in the right spot detracts from the task at hand and turns a quick and easy task into a big production ;-) I will try the "I'll be in the other room" bit and see if that helps. And the wiping-bit is funny. It's so true... once they're trained, it's still a two-person task.

Posted by: Mother in Chief | Dec 15, 2005 6:20:32 PM